Alice: Avi, thank you so much for sitting down with me today. It’s a pleasure to have you here.
Avi: Thanks for having me, Alice. Excited to chat.
Alice: Let’s start with an introduction. Could you share your story on how you got involved in Web3 and the ZK space?
Avi: Sure. Like many people, my journey into ZK started with blockchains. I’m the CEO of =nil; Foundation, a company building an Ethereum Layer 2 based on ZK sharding. Before stepping into the CEO role, I was the Chief Product Officer at =nil;, and prior to that, I was a venture investor at Delphi Digital, focusing on early-stage crypto infrastructure. That’s where I developed a strong overlap with ZK, looking at early ZK rollups and use cases for interoperability and privacy.
My broader blockchain journey began back in 2016 when I was a college student. Bitcoin fascinated me—it started as a hobby, turned into an obsession, and eventually became a profession. Back then, some friends were running miners in dorm rooms to save on electricity costs. It was a great side hustle for a college kid with free electricity, but for me, it grew into something much bigger.
Alice: I love that progression from hobby to obsession to profession. It’s a common theme in this space. Something that stands out in your background is your experience as both an investor and an operator. How has having these two perspectives influenced your approach to building a startup, particularly one focused on a complex, niche area like ZK?
Avi: It’s been invaluable. As an investor, I gained a high-level view of the market by looking at companies, identifying trends, and speaking with founders daily. That experience gave me insights into what makes a startup successful and shaped my criteria for evaluating opportunities. It’s hard to get that depth of understanding without being immersed in the market as an investor.
When I transitioned to operating, I realized the importance of team dynamics. Investors often say, “I’m betting on the team,” but operating has shown me just how critical a strong team is. A good team won’t guarantee success, but a weak team guarantees failure. Building a well-run organization is as crucial as having a great product and technology.
Alice: Absolutely, a strong team forms the foundation. Have you noticed any misconceptions that investors or startups have about each other?
Avi: Definitely. One misconception investors often have is over-indexing on product and technology. These are essential, but they’re not everything. A great product needs a strong organization behind it to succeed. On the startup side, there’s sometimes a belief that all investors care about is revenue or metrics. In reality, many investors are just as focused on the potential of the team and the narrative.
Alice: That’s an interesting point about narrative. You’ve mentioned “narrative market fit” as opposed to product-market fit before. Can you elaborate on that?
Avi: Sure. Narrative market fit is about aligning with the collective consciousness or worldview of the market. In crypto, this often takes precedence over product-market fit because the space values stories that resonate. A compelling narrative can drive valuation and attention, even when the underlying product is still maturing. That’s not to say product-market fit isn’t crucial—it is—but in crypto, narratives have an outsized influence.
Alice: At the time of this conversation, you’ve just been announced as CEO of =nil;. Congratulations! What are you most looking forward to in this new role?
Avi: Thank you! It’s an exciting moment. My primary focus is on maintaining momentum as we move towards mainnet. The team’s been working hard, and my job is to pour fuel on the fire, so to speak, while putting out fires when necessary. It’s about keeping everything aligned and ensuring we meet our milestones.
Alice: Speaking of milestones, =nil; has transitioned from working on ZK LLVM and Proof Market to focusing on ZK sharding. How has the vision evolved?
Avi: The vision has remained consistent: solving hard problems. In the early days, we were focused on cryptography and ZK circuit development. Now, with ZK sharding, we’re tackling the challenge of scaling Ethereum while maintaining composability and shared security. Our goal is to create a unified and scalable Layer 2 architecture that avoids the pitfalls of fragmentation seen in other rollup models.
Alice: What do you see as the major challenges facing current L2 solutions?
Avi: The primary challenges are scaling and fragmentation. Many L2s operate in silos, creating interoperability and liquidity issues. With ZK sharding, we aim to solve this by ensuring all shards can seamlessly compose and interact. It’s about building a system where developers only have to deploy once and can scale effortlessly.
Alice: That developer-first focus is great. Are there any other aspects of the developer experience you’re optimizing for?
Avi: Definitely. We’ve built for EVM compatibility but also extend it with features like asynchronous programming patterns for cross-shard communication. Developers can decide how much processing power they need by distributing logic across shards. This flexibility enables scalable app design without requiring developers to rethink their workflows.
Alice: On the security side, what measures have you implemented to ensure the robustness of ZK sharding?
Avi: Security in sharded systems is about addressing the weakest link. In ZK sharding, we employ random sampling to assign validators to shards, ensuring robust security through committee rotation. This probabilistic model strengthens the system while maintaining the benefits of shared security and composability.
Alice: Finally, what does the endgame for Ethereum look like to you, particularly with =nil; aiming to be its last Layer 2?
Avi: Ethereum’s endgame, in my view, is to serve as the canonical source of truth for the internet of value. It’s the most operationally resilient programmable blockchain and will remain the settlement layer for decentralized systems. With advancements in ZK, we’ll see a future of abundant trustless computation anchored by Ethereum.
Alice: That’s a powerful vision. Before we wrap up, any advice for our audience?
Avi: If you’re considering entering the space, just start. Commit to learning, building, or joining a project you’re passionate about. This is a transformative industry with opportunities to make a meaningful impact.
Alice: Fantastic advice. Thank you so much, Avi, for sharing your insights and taking the time to chat today.
Avi: Thank you, Alice. It’s been a pleasure.
Follow @avizurlo and @nil_foundation for the latest updates.
